12-28-25 spal
| Probably around 27% including state, federal and property. This is higher because my primary residence is in Wisconsin and I pay state taxes whereas if it flipped to my secondary residence in Texas that would go away. About 35% of my income is fully sheltered by real estate depreciation (I could live off this if I chose to). All of my real estate capital gains are sheltered in perpetuity (under current law) and owned by a trust where the tax basis can be stepped up to the market value when the estate is passed on. The taxes I pay are discretionary in the sense that they are largely gains coming out of funds that exit my IRA accounts. If these are redeployed into RE the returns are then sheltered once again. |
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12-28-25 carib
| SAL: what would you say is your real effective tax rate (total taxes paid, including local property taxes, as a % of your total yearly income - excluding unrealised gains)? |
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12-28-25 carib
| I presume (but do not know) the same applies to Singapore. |
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12-28-25 carib
Savo: all I know is large Lux private banks offer safes in a Caveau, and many clients keep gold bars and coins there.
There is still bank secrecy for residents, and taxation of gains if bullion held for over 6 months.
If one keeps some savings in gold, eventually he will have to sell some to pay bills.
Gold will not increase in price steadily and forever, so there will be a time to buy (a few years ago), and a time to sell. |
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12-28-25 savo
| and in any case .. a US gold etf is US situs.. I imagine you do not want that. |
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12-28-25 savo
this is not a gold forum.. we are simply contemplating in real time how the world abandoning the dollar... and taking part in it.
endless wars.. endless deficits... endless money printing... endless bailouts...and now international piracy...
pills.. choosing the US is like a turkey voting for Christmas (as they say).. sooner or later you will have your Roosevelt... by then... it will be too late. |
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12-28-25 spal
| Panas - yes - some truth in that. |
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12-28-25 pillz
| interesting to see, that colores is becoming a gold forum ... , is gold the next bond board ? , and how much % must it be 50% of assets or more ?? and btw, imop i don't trust more gold ch etf then us gold etf , why , because i don't trust more ch the the us |
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12-28-25 panasonic
Spal, in a nutshell:
https://www.gobankingrates.com/taxes/tax-laws/i-asked-chatgpt-how-billionaires-pay-hardly-any-taxes-heres-what-it-revealed/ |
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12-28-25 panasonic
Spal, the contrary is true.
People that depend from Social Security and not enough savings will do better living in low cost countries. |
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12-28-25 panasonic
| Savo, true gold moves in strong rallies, so if you need to sell chunks in flat prices years, depletion is a big problem. |
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12-28-25 panasonic
Vic, nope colores life is not avoiding USA, is avoiding taxes as long as possible.
True, me also was surprised by my decision :-)
After years of three houses, triple expenses, 3 sets of maids, doctors and plumbers plus 20+ flights a year wife and me had enough, Covid + my son moving to Miami the catalyst. |
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12-28-25 spal
when people get older, they usually LEAVE the usa... not move there.
===
What?
If you have money and don't know how to shelter it as a US Citizen you don't understand how the system works. |
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12-27-25 savo
pana.. i could not have done that... i had to earn money to pay expenses and save to invest.. it was a process... there was no initial capital inherited to put on gold and sit and wait selling little coins.
My analysis of gold vs indexes is with hindsight ..hence of little value..just a piece of information on how a Wall Street has managed to mess with everybody's mind and make people believe that there was money in index investing... BS... unless one catches the MSFT, Apple or NVIDIA of the day...investing passively is index under-performed gold.
And it makes sense... most of the US corporate sector is rubbish.. as everywhere else... they just survive.. valuations go up because of real inflation (not BLS reported).. a few corps at every period of time are the ones carrying the baton... either one catches those or is left with the rubbish.
I would say the result of the last 50 years tells us that catching the NVIDIAS is the top performer.....if not unless you can do some distressed debt magic... just buy gold.. and hold it despite periods of stagnation... but do not buy stock indexes.
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12-27-25 victor
pana, *** If not ready *** to give up on colores life
//
??
what are you implying?
that savo will eventually be "ready to give up on colores life", and move to the usa ??
you are the exception to the rule, pana. and i was perplexed by your decision.
when people get older, they usually LEAVE the usa... not move there. |
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12-27-25 panasonic
Savo, I don't have the answer.
As investment you posted numbers on how Gold outperformed US indexes, and in perspectiv me could have moved to US 25 years ago and only pay taxes on portion of gold sold, me was too young to take that decision, so giving up colores life is very personal.
If not ready to give up on colores life, banking in US makes very little sense, so Carib is right keep it simple vault and some gold "sheets" handy with 1gr detachable pieces should be ok.
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12-27-25 savo
| sorry.. previous for carib |
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12-27-25 savo
spal.. AI
The U.S. added siver to the official 2025 List of Critical Minerals, alongside copper, uranium, and others, recognizing its vital role in defense, green tech (solar panels, EVs), and national security, potentially unlocking subsidies, faster permitting, and even tariffs to secure domestic supply chains and reduce reliance on foreign adversaries. This is a major strategic shift, acknowledging silver's indispensable industrial demand beyond its traditional monetary role
in essence silver can not leave the US without a permit...and who can get that permit? |
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12-27-25 savo
pana.. i am not expert either...
but where should the bank be?
would you leave a gold bar in a JPM account in the US given the Roosevelt experience?
or in the UK given the veni experience?
in CH? ok..may be there it works
the typical gold bar offered by swiss banks is theoretically 400 ounces, in fact a bit less, 374. At todays price almost 1.7mm. There is a fractionability problem there.
What would be the benefit of having a gold bar in a bank safe in CH which can not be fractioned vs having a CH ETF that stores in CH that can be easily traded in minimum amounts?
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12-27-25 carib
| Savo: I am no expert, but given bullion price, is it not simpler to keep bars in a bank safe, if you want security? |
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12-27-25 spal
Analysts broadly anticipate prices remaining elevated above current levels (around $75–$80 per ounce as of late December 2025), potentially testing $85–$100 in Q1 2026, driven by acute physical shortages from reduced Chinese outflows (estimated to cut 60–70% of typical exports to Western markets).
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12-27-25 spal
Silver
Regarding whether this creates an artificial or controlled shortage: Yes, the restrictions are expected to tighten global supply significantly, as China controls 60–70% of worldwide silver refining and has historically been a key exporter.
By limiting outflows, Beijing is engineering a controlled global squeeze—potentially removing 25% of available supply to Western markets and creating a projected 5,000-tonne deficit in 2026—while maintaining ample domestic availability at potentially lower effective costs through state-backed procurement.
This has already driven volatility, with silver prices surging 150–175% year-to-date to around $75–80 per ounce globally and even higher premiums ($5–8/oz) in Shanghai, reflecting acute tightness.
The policy exacerbates existing multi-year supply-demand imbalances, where industrial use accounts for about 50% of demand, and could fragment global trade further.
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12-27-25 savo
pana.. to summarize.. there are various variables that determine the risk.
1) Domicile. you know that according to the first two letters of the ISIN number: US, IE, GB, JE, CH ..etc.. for the US, ireland, UK, Switzerland.
2) The exchange in which it trades. As usual could be US, London, various europeans, CH, HK, etc...
3) The currency...when it is offered in a currency other than dollars there is a cost for the hedge... I prefer to do my own hedges hence look for ETFs that trade in dollars.
4) Expense ratio...could go from 0.09% to 0.4%
There are ETFs that trade in London or the US with US or UK or Ireland ISINs but the gold is stored in Switzerland. When the gold is stored in CH the name of the ETF usually includes SWISS GOLD.
So it can be confusing. If I do not want US or UK law... want the gold to be stored in CH but trade in USD the only ones I could find are:
AUUSI --> 0.23%
CSGOLD --> 0.19%
ZGLDUS --> 0.40% |
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12-27-25 savo
pana.. i would say nothing beats gold bars stored in some vault in the alps or singapore. With Silver it becomes more complicated the storage...because of size...
But short of that there are levels of risk...
a US etf with a US isin (US situs) and gold stored in some US vault... I would say represents the maximum level of risk giving the track record of the american government.
a UK or Irleand etf with gold stored in London I would still consider it risky. They have not forced people to sell their gold for fiat but removed the standard several times... are the epitomy of the lapdog and have recently stolen veni's gold at the request of the US. So anything can happen with those bootlickers.
A swiss domiciled ETF that trades in dollars in the swiss stock exchange with gold bars stored in CH and a low expense ratio could be a good approximation to holding physical.
There is such ETF...ticker... CSGOLD.. expense ratio 0.19%... more expensive than IAUM which costs 0.09% per annum... but not that bad compared to others. |
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12-27-25 panasonic
| Savo, good point but still doesn't solve the problem, if we are in a crash of that magnitude I would be far from relaxed with papelitos of any kind. |
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12-27-25 savo
pana.. i did not explain myself well.. I am referring to the location of the assets not to our physical location.
There are gold and silver ETFs in other jurisdictions under other laws of countries that do not have the habit of stealing other people's gold.
US ETFs apart from the US situs element that Pillz was mentioning some months ago.. have a confiscation risk (infamous Nixon) or a forced sale risk (infamous Roosevelt).
The odd think about Roosevelt is that the objective to force sale gold to the FED for dollars was to expand the money circulating.
Crude inflation.
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12-27-25 carib
| Panas: thanks. I had misunderstood. |
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12-27-25 panasonic
Quote of the day by Epictetus:
‘There is only one way to happiness and that is to stop worrying about things which are beyond the power or our will’ |
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12-27-25 panasonic
I do, but comes a day that lifestyle jumps to the front of everythinge else.
Proximity to family, friends, great doctors that are also very close friends, etc.
We are not getting younger Savo, if not now, when? |
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12-27-25 savo
aren't you worried that the US may confiscate or force people to sell their gold and silver...
They did it twice already... Roosevelt in 1933 issued executive order 6102 by which all americans had to sell their gold to the Fed.
Then, the infamous Nixon stole the gold from all dollar holders at home and abroad.
With the US now stealing veni's oil in plain daylight and nobody saying anything other than Russia and China... what precludes them from taking all the gold and silver from US registered ETFs?
Silver is used in the defense industry... there is there an easy national security argument. |
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12-27-25 panasonic
| Savo, or buy/sell without money involved. |
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12-27-25 panasonic
| Savo, you can cross borders with Gold, equivalent en silver not viable. |
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12-27-25 savo
pana.. what do you mean by this?
Only downside of SLV vs GLD it has to be in paper, physical is not viable.
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